Curse

Aracos79 · Sep 01, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Is it just me, or does a topic somewhere along these lines crop of every couple days or so? The sky isn't falling folks. GW will never be perfect since you can't please everybody. But it seems to please enough of the people enough of the time to continue to be successful. That's all any game company can ask for.

nailz · Sep 01, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

Nothing forces you to grind. I'm bringing my 4th character through right now and having fun doing it. There isn't a single thing in the game that forces you to grind to earn cash as having the so called "UBER" items isn't a requirement, it's simply an internet phallus comparison contest. You don't need to have every skill in the game unlocked to be competative in the arenas. Infact my ranger build is 87.5% made up of skills aquired before I reached riverside. is it perfect? Nope, does it allow me to win 1v1 around 50% of the time? Yup. If I can't win atleast half my fights then the build needs help, if I can then the build might need minor tweaks or I need more practice with it, neither of which is what I call grind.

I call bringing 4 characters all the way through a tediously boring PvE just so you can unlock your skills grind....and I don't even PvP. I feel bad for the PvP players...all they want is to have skills available to them. I don't think they should get UAS, but atleast give them some way to get skills/items unlocked in a reasonable amount of time.

Theos · Sep 01, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

The need to grind is an opinion, not a fact. People have a right to believe what they wish. Saying that this game forces you to grind is also an opinion, one that I do not believe is true.

When I first started the new GW, following the beta (which was fun), I did one character, a ranger/mesmer, I finished the game and explored all of tyria, and while enjoying the game unlocked everyskill for those two profesions. Grind? None that I noted.

By the time I was done with PvE (which I still enjoy to play with new prof combinations), the faction system was out. Sure it wasn't all that rewarding but I used it to my advantage. I took my R/Me skills and used them in the preset builds, and slowly gained faction and unlocked more skills, today I have nearly every skill. Did I grind? Not in my opinion. Did I enjoy both PvP and PvE?
Yes. I think the only possible grind in this game is that of having to do PvE once, which I doubt many care to do once. Its just that with what faction is/was its probably quicker to "grind" or enjoy new professions through PvE. With the fix to faction, which I expect to be large much of the grind will be gone. Heck I was able to unlock the rest of the skills during PvPX.

Take my way of looking at the game and multiply the faction by some large variable and what I did people will do in weeks not the two months it took me. Two months of enjoyment though

jdwoody · Sep 01, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Let's look at Diablo I/II. they have all the disadvantages you've mentioned, and non of the advantages of GW, and they were incrediably successful.

It's hard to compare the two especially since they came out at totally different times and were aimed at different audiences. I didn't play diablo alot, but I do remember that I could run it locally, solo just about everything and I don't remember there being any kind of death penalty at all. I don't remember there being alot of teamwork, it was pretty much every man for him/herself.

Still if we want to compare the two consider the following:

Diablo allows you to have any number of characters. I'm currently max'd out, I have 3 pve characters I don't want to delete and a pvp slot. Many of my guildmates have 4 pve characters so they make do in pvp but at a disadvantage. I could buy another copy if the accounts could be merged, but they can't so it's either pvp, help guildies, farm.

You don't have to get other people organized to play diablo, you just go. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to get organized, but I only have a couple hours a night to play GW, spending 30-45 minutes getting ready for tombs isn't really an option, so I tend to play random arenas. Not a bad thing, just very different from diablo.

Diablo doesn't block any of it's content, especially allowing experienced players to block and/or take advantage of new players. Imagine if you didn't participate in any of the BWE's and bought GW the first day, met people in game and were having a blast. Then you and your new friends decide to get a guild hall. Oops, you have two options, get into an international tournament with the best players in the world, or farm for 10 hours and give all your gold and magic items to the best players as ransom. There is nothing like that in diablo or any other game for that matter.

I still enjoy playing GW so I hope others will come back and/or they make it more friendly for new people. (I've been giving stuff in ascalon city and trying to help newbies, but the people that are helpful are outnumbered by the spammers/scammers/runners 10 to 1...

)

Age · Sep 01, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

That all depends on how you look at it.If you are MMO player then you are used to it power leveling but if you are just a RTS or FPS player then there is grind,grind and grind.I am RTS player and the games I play there is no grind.This game was not meant to be a grinding game mostly competive by playing PVP.I will say this that GW will have short life if all ithe inherit problems aren't dealt with that the community keeps talking about and I don't mean having it harder a little easier would be nice for unlocks this not an MMO.Then is the PVE and PVP fix isn't taken care of it won't last long and faction no good really only a band aid.

asdar · Sep 01, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I don't think you have any proof of disapointment in Sales for GW. There's one negative article about sales in Korea, there are dozens about how well it sold in the US and Europe. Check out the PC game sales charts in Europe and the U.S. for the past four months.

I'm not making up stories, check them out for yourselves and then decide.

Diablo was a medium sized fish in a small pond, GW is in a Lake.

When EQ came out it was huge because there was no competition in the MMORPG world. I wouldn't compare a game today with EQ for that reason. A better game than EQ might fail in today's market.

This game is a success and was a success and the sequel will be a success.

Just because you didn't get what you wanted doesn't mean the game will fail no matter how much you want it to.

Theos · Sep 01, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

That all depends on how you look at it.If you are MMO player then you are used to it power leveling but if you are just a RTS or FPS player then there is grind,grind and grind.I am RTS player and the games I play there is no grind.This game was not meant to be a grinding game mostly competive by playing PVP.I will say this that GW will have short life if all ithe inherit problems aren't dealt with that the community keeps talking about and I don't mean having it harder a little easier would be nice for unlocks this not an MMO.Then is the PVE and PVP fix isn't taken care of it won't last long and faction no good really only a band aid.

I came from a FPS background, and am by heart an FPS player. Yet to me there is no grind, so what if it took a little longer to kick off PvP than it takes with Unreal or CS, when I first started CS and Unreal I sucked, but as time progressed I became competitive and my reactions got better. PvE was a fun little story in which I could learn the skills, understand what they do, and enjoy the game without someone shouting "You got pwned!Hax!@!!one!!".

Once I unlocked all of tyria and the R/Me skills I was ready for competition, and thats what I did. I had limited skills and unlocks, big woop, the weapons were there and in one PvE go I got alot of good upgrades, and so I played disrupt, as that was a good thing to run as a R/Me. So competed and had fun while unlocking things and broadening my horizons. Do I care if it took me a while to unlock everything? No I enjoyed killing people and when I got a little bored in PvP I went and made a new PvE char to enjoy the story again and even notice new things.

But you are right when I first came to the game I thought, "Hey a fantasy FPS!" or so I was showed by beta. When the game was released I went and made a new account and started to make a character, I saw Standard Option and PvP Only Option, well I tried pVp only, and the bad templates made me mad. Did I quit? No, I looked at the standard option and said "Hey this must be here for a reason" and made my char. Enjoyed the game in PvE and unlocked enough skills for PvP. So I was ticked off for a little, but heck I still enjoyed it.

GW will not die easily, I see a promising future, but I do agree (again) that some flaws need to be fixed. I personally do not want UAS anymore, I did at one point, but no longer, not because I have everything unlocked, but because I think UAS would ruin the idea of an integrated game. I like running my R/Me into PvP, with all the time on him I can never really be at a disadvantage as I have the best of everything, but others will be at disadvantages.

jdwoody · Sep 01, 2005, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

I don't think you have any proof of disapointment in Sales for GW.

The thread is about the future though, it had a great launch but are people still playing it and getting their friends to buy it and play it...

Xonic · Sep 01, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

good review Theos.

"The thread is about the future though, it had a great launch but are people still playing it and getting their friends to buy it and play it..." - jdwoody

4 months on top of sales chart... hard to have a failure future with such a strong start. no?

Mordakai · Sep 01, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I'll buy any expansion. Those that don't want to, won't.

I'm betting there are plenty of people who will buy the expansion.

And as it gets harder and harder to get into WoW, because of the insane levels people are at (and just because of the already horrible graphics/interface), I predict more people will jump on the Guild Wars bandwagon.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 01, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonic

To be honest, if developers listen to more than 10% of the players' suggestions, any game will turn into a failure.

As illustrated in this thread.

Anyway - were you guys expecting to play this game for ever?

Just wondering.

When I bought GW, I was hoping to get a decent cRPG to tie me over until Oblivion and STALKER were released. I got that, in spades. For $50 I've got four months worth of gaming, and counting. Easily the best value for money I've ever had from an rpg, including Everquest2 (and it was free).

It isn't the best rpg I've ever played, but it's a real good one.

Apparently some here, like the idiots, wanted Diablo3, and were disappointed. Me, I sortof liked Diablo2, but it wasn't a religion to me and I didn't expect GW to be Diablo3. And I wasn't disappointed.

Will GW be around for ever?

No, of course not. Battlefield2 is stealing the PvP crowd as we speak, Dungeons & Dragons Online and Oblivion will steal the PvE crowd shortly. The expansion (and the fact that all games get boring after a while) will draw some back, but I'm guessing the commercial longevity of GW is probably in the region of one to two years. Anet's most likely planned that way too, unless they're a lot dumber than I think.

Does it really matter?
Did not you get your money's worth, in spades?
Would you rather have paid $110 to play World of Warcraft from when GW was released in April to today?

Me, I'm happy I bought GW. I'll play it till I get bored or something better comes along.

Theos · Sep 01, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I'll buy any expansion. Those that don't want to, won't.

I'm betting there are plenty of people who will buy the expansion.

And as it gets harder and harder to get into WoW, because of the insane levels people are at (and just because of the already horrible graphics/interface), I predict more people will jump on the Guild Wars bandwagon.

Actually many people are defecting from WoW to Guild Wars. Much of my guild did just that, they abbandoned WoW for GW better everything. They even enjoy some of the "grind" to go through GW and get into PvP.

nailz · Sep 01, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

Then we have different experiences, I remember some harsh critiques of myself when I first started. Also from what I have noticed in GW when someone does bad/loses they recieve the "You got pwned!Hax!@!!one!!". So why not avoid it? True you will lose here and there but you don't have to force yourself to lose inorder to learn, which I like about GW. I can go into PvE and get "pwned" by the mobs, do they shout at me? No. They sit there and allow me to chage my strategy to beat them. Its a good way to learn and enjoy learning.

EDIT: I have told friends about GW, they now enjoy GW, and others I know also now enjoy GW. Some came from FPS like me, heck I would play them in Unreal nearly daily... during school. Today they have fun enjoying the game we call Guild wars. Is it dieing? In my opinion no.

ya. if you picked up CS more than like 4 or 5 months after it's release date you certainly got the "You got pwned!Hax!@!!one!!". comments....hell I still get them every time I go back to play CS and my twitch or aim is a little off....it's still clearly evident that I'm better than most people judging by the way I play the game. It's a good thing twitch and aim come back real quick

Theos · Sep 01, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by nailz

ya. if you picked up CS more than like 4 or 5 months after it's release date you certainly got the "You got pwned!Hax!@!!one!!". comments....hell I still get them every time I go back to play CS and my twitch or aim is a little off....it's still clearly evident that I'm better than most people judging by the way I play the game. It's a good thing twitch and aim come back real quick

Ya somewhere around 3 months after it came out.

Once I started "pwning" people shut up and I enjoyed the game for a while. I don't know how good I am overall, but I know I killed people well, if you can really say that

As for unreal I became one of the best in my area. So I was truly happy there

No need for sniping people from the top of Facing Worlds... Now... I just run into their base with the redeemer and blow them up and allow my ally to take the flag. LoL.

Xonic · Sep 01, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

I used to play hard to keep me on the top spot.

I now play hard to keep my score close to, or on a good day above 1:1 ratio.

Sol_Vie · Sep 01, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by nailz

b) thank you for pointing out that he game isn't free...I'm tired of listening to people argue that we should "take what we got because the game is free"...last I checked I spent 50 bucks on it.

Ok, you're right- It isn't free, but because you have to pay at least $50 for each other game competing with GW (i.e. WoW) the idea of having to pay that original $50 is more or less null. That $50 that you lose in the beginning has a tendency to get filtered out of your memory. If you're still thinking about and regretting spending that truly devastatingly large amount of money then maybe you should have thought twice before buying the game.

So let's go over what we've learned from this thread. What was the question?
I believe it was, essentially, what's the future for GW and will there be a GW2 (expansions, etc.). (Thread title: Any Predictions about GW's Future?) The answers we've gotten?

GW sucks.
GW is great.
GW is great but has flaws.
We're stupid.

Harrumph. Seems like the topic got slightly skewed. 'Course so is my post, up to this point.

Personally, I think GW has a future just as DII did. There are a lot of things that make GW better than DII, meanwhile there are a lot of things that make DII better than GW. However, GW is a relatively new game and has a lot more room for expansion and improvement. Maybe right now, they're not doing so well. Maybe players aren't as happy as they could be with it. But that's to be expected. As Aracos said, it can't make everyone happy all the time.

I think GW has done well enough so far to at least have a chapter in the future of online gaming. At the very least a chapter. It is hardly a failure. Some areas may be lacking, yes, but that's what expansions are for. I can't wait for expansions, new weapons and new missions. The storyline, graphics, and game in general are great in my opinion.

sino-soviet · Sep 01, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

The fundamental problem with Guild wars in its current state,is not as complex as many of you are claming it is. Most complaints are geared toward a lack of pve content, and that these problems did not exist while pve was still fresh and new. Guild Wars does not have enough long term playability for pve'ers in terms of content in between expansions, and unfortunately for Arenanet, they have a fanbase which is predominately pve, much more than they anticipated. Nontheless, I predict that Guidl wars will shift to a dominantly pvp and dominantly pve outlook in the future. They just don't have the time and resources to sustain both for long.

jdwoody · Sep 01, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

4 months on top of sales chart... hard to have a failure future with such a strong start. no?

I wish I knew, but I do know that GW is different from most of the games it's on the sales chart with. It requires dedicated servers but has no monthly fee.

While it is an amazing value for us, we just have to hope they have enough money to keep the thing going...

Loviatar · Sep 01, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

since this is just the foundation so to speak and they are doing serious modifications and repairs to it as we speak AND it has only been out 4 months...............i predict enough stuff will happen in the next 6-8 months to make many people more happy.

i think chapter 2 will build on this foundation and be much better overall from lessons learned

and no i dont think it is perfect by a long shot but i am still having fun.

and i am putting together a better pc for OBLIVION when it comes out (please dont have it be DAGGERFALL buggy)

Yamat · Sep 01, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xonic

To be honest, if developers listen to more than 10% of the players' suggestions, any game will turn into a failure.

This should be carved in stone, and doesn't just apply to games.